Question by Lacey UD, RE: Do you see dog training as a willing partnership between dog and owner?
Why or why not?
Best answer:
Answer by Sara
well yes, this is teaching your dog to trust you, and understand you
What do you think? Answer below!
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Do you see dog training as a willing partnership between dog and owner?15 comments to Do you see dog training as a willing partnership between dog and owner? |
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I see basic training and obedience as not so much a willing partnership, but a master and underling deal. Simpy put, Im the boss, my dog’s the worker. What I say goes.
For more advanced training (ie, sled/weight pulling, skijoring, frisbee catching, dock jumping, protection, hunting, schutzhund, tracking, etc) I believe a bond must be present between dog and human. These “advanced” trainings require your dog trust you and require you to really know your dog- it’s limits, it’s likes and dislikes, knowing when it’s bored of the training, knowing when it’s happy and eager during training, etc.
Take protection training for eg… as well as police dog training… any dog trainer worth his/her weight will tell you that firstly, the dog must be cut out for it… not any dog can do this type of job or train this way. Secondly,. they will tell you that they have to evaluate and get to know each dog individually before they can truly make training breakthroughs. Just like humans (children is a good eg) everyone learns differently, expresses frustration differently, expresses happiness differently, etc. So to this point I say that yes, a human needs to have a good bond with the dog they are training.
Dogs are by nature a pack animal and always looks for the most dominant leader, if the person doesn’t show the dog that they are the leader the dog will take over that roll
Yes. I don’t do anything my dog doesn’t want me to do. He’s trained me to scratch his ears, rub his belly, fill his food bowl and fetch a ball. If he didn’t want to do those things he wouldn’t.
I guess as much as being a parent and disciplining your kids is a “willing partnership”
Whether or not its a WILLING partnership…..eh…possibly. I see it more as…I’m telling you to do something and you DO IT. Whether or not you’re willing or want to do it…is irrelevant.
That’s not the point.
Humans set the rules,teach them & dog complies. Animals don’t get a vote.
for my own dogs, and my own training, YES.
it’s not universal though, some dogs are clearly forced to work, or are working just because they HAVE to, to get food, or to avoid correction.
a lot of that has to do with the training method, and the temperament and drive of the dog.
for example, Woodchuck? NO. he’s a lazy, useless bum. his drive STINKS. his obediences is good, and yes, he’ll comply with anything i say, but not because he enjoys working for me.
for Tank? YES- he LIVES to work. he LIVES for his ball- he LIVES to please me- and so yes, we’re a team, and it’s a willing partnership.
I think that dog training shouldn’t be willing. I think it should be wanted and that it’s highly needed. When you train your puppy/dog, you build a bond that allows your dog to trust you and have them believe that you will always be there for them and that you love them.
yes dog training is a willing partnership between owner and dog.Training creates a bond between owner and dog, it establishes trust between the two. However if you do not make it fun and interesting for your dog he will not want to work because he or she will associate it as a negative experience.
Willing partnership? Hmmm I don’t think so – or at least not entirely.
These are domesticated animals, they have a pack mentality to a degree – they are happy having someone play alpha in their lives and to establish alpha takes training in obedience at the very least. Even if you do some sort of sport like Schutzhund – the dog had to undergo some sort of basic obedience training and a lot of it is using compulsion of some degree (whether it be food or physical). Because let’s face it, no dog is just going to wake up one day, do every command you ask on the first try and continue that way for the rest of their lives – they are still animals, they still have a pack mentality, they will poke around for the alpha position at some point (not all, but some).
Look at people that “train” their dogs for dog fights. The dogs don’t generally want to do that and they are PHYSICALLY compelled to do it under extraordinary and cruel conditions – but they still do it. They take that submissive role and they do whatever you want – and I don’t think in this kind of a circumstance the dog is actually “willing”.
But on the flipside – when you see a dog out on an agility course or even the Schutzhund trial fields and they just look like they are having the time of their lives listening to their master – there is a willing partnership there. It is willing on the owner for putting the time and effort into training their dog for that kind of stuff and there is willing on the dog’s part for the simple joy the dog is clearly displaying. Again, this goes for some dogs, not all.
Hope that makes sense lol.
ADD: I just wanted to add something after reading DeeDawg’s answer…
I agree that there are some dogs that are clearly forced to do more than just obedience training – I mean there are some dogs that clearly don’t even want to be obedient, but they have no choice there lol – I’m talking about dogs on trail fields.
Although I use corrections in my training – I would never force my dog to do something like Schutzhund if he really didn’t like it. Even Schutzhund is supposed to be something fun for the dog – so no matter how much I might want to do it, if he doesn’t want to then there’s no point.
I use corrections in obedience training because to me he has no choice but to be obedient – especially out on the walk. He has learned everything first with food and then have it phase out – but, since his drive is pretty high, sometimes the food won’t catch his attention and then some sort of physical compulsion needs to be used. He KNOWS what is expected so he knows if he does it he gets rewarded and if he ignores it than there is a consequence (pop on the leash).
ADD2: @DeeDawg – sorry, I’m not completely knowledgable about dog fighting (I’m sure you know quite a bit as I’m sure bully breeds are your choice breed!).
I was reading something the other day about Michael Vick and how he would use like cattle prods to compel the dogs to fight. I think a dog could be scared by such physical compulsion to do whatever it is that you were asking it to do, no?
Because then you see those pit bulls that were fighting in those dog fights and now they are living in homes with other dogs getting along just fine with no desire to fight.
I don’t know about the training part, but tell you what, the days spent together in a duck blind are sure a “willing partnership”.
edit:
For the PR advocates, it is impossible to train a dog without using corrections. Even “ignoring a behavior” is by definition a correction. The only thing that changes is how a correction is applied.
edit:
stacie, WHY ARE YOU SCREAMING AT US ! ! !
(it’s only teletype machines that don’t have lower case, and I doubt that anyone is posting on the internet using a teletype machine)
Oh yes, of course it is. Dogs are pack animals and do want to know their place in the pack and want to “fulfill” that place. Which is just another way of saying that they want to please…need to please in order to find contentment.
Training is a form of communication. It is how we humans let the dog know what it is we want him to do.
Have you ever seen the expression on a dog’s face…no, their whole body…when they”get it”? When they do the thing you want them to do and they know they got it right? As a dog owner/lover,that is priceless!
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Hey everyone…this question doesn’t ask whether it is an EQUAL partnership…of course it is not. But are dogs willing to be trained? Yes. It is up to the human to find the right training method for each particular dog because it is the training itself that is the communication. Just because a d dog is obedient doesn’t mean that it is being forced. Most dogs WANT to be in a partnership…that makes them willing!
Sort of. We live together, so if we can have a good relationship, that’s great. However, it’s not an equal partnership. I bought him. I own him. I feed him, control when and where he eliminates, and when and where he exercises. In other words, I’m in charge of pretty much every aspect of his life. That comes with more responsibility on my part. I’m responsible for his care and protection, and helping him live in a people’s world.
That’s not equal. That’s not to say that I don’t think of him as a partner. I hold him accountable for his behavior (for the most part- he’s still a dog!) in return for all I give him.
The wording is slightly off.
“Dog training” is not a “willing partnership”.
As bells said, as raising and disciplining a child is not a willing partnership.
That said:
In life/society there are “rules” so all get along. It is not acceptable to wreak havoc
Same within each home and family.
If one decides to have a dog join their family, there need to be rules to keep the harmony. Thus dog training.
Proper dog training creates a bond, a mutual understanding, between person and dog.
When the dog is trained, it can be trusted. When trusted, it can “go more” and “do more” with you. It has earned some freedoms.
As TJ referred to the dog sitting in the duck blind with it’s person:
Wren, running agility with me. Wren herding sheep. These are willing partnerships. These are activities she thrives on. And being able to do them is the result of training.
I see it as a mutually beneficial relationship….we both get something out of the deal.
How willing the partnership is depends on the dog….my chi does everything under duress, because she sees herself as queen of the world. My Westie mix is the “good girl” and will gladly do anything you ask her to do.
None of the dogs get much of a choice, of course – they are stuck with me whether they like it or not, and must put up with the rules and regulations I establish…..kind of like government.
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Yes. At least in my ideal world. I certainly know it isn’t that way for everyone, and find that a bit sad. My favorite analogy is that we are a team, and I’m the team captain. I compete in agility, and am working towards competing at the national and international level- you don’t get a dog able to do those kinds of courses, at those kind of speeds, by cranking down and insisting on perfection at every little step- that way lies hesitation, a reluctance to try to fear of being wrong, a loss of speed as the dog waits to make sure the handler really wants what he thinks he wants. And yes, I work with trainers who have “been there, done that” at the international level, winning and placing multiple times, and with multiple dogs, so they know what they are talking about.
When I have a puppy, I focus a lot of energy on setting things up so the pup learns what I want it to learn easily, without having to resort to aversives or harsh corrections. Part of my time, especially initially, is spent on teaching the dog to learn, and working on motivation and relationship, rather than specific skills. I’ve spent money and time on books, seminars, and websites, learning about canine ethology and cognition so that I can better understand my partner and improve my training and relationship. I find it very sad when I can look at a dog and see the various stress signals, and the handler is oblivious, asking more and more of the dog, until the dog disengages, or worse, and then gets blamed for being stubborn, or stupid, or some other fault of the dog. I’ve taught my dog to signal me when she gets stressed by something we’re doing- that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have to do it, it does mean I can evaluate the situation and make a choice about how or if we work it.
One major reason I see training this way is that I have enormous respect for dogs both as a species and as individuals. They are not automatons, and they have distinct personalities from birth. My goal is to bring out the best that I can from each dog, yes, in the agility ring, but most of our life is spent outside of agility, and I want dogs I can enjoy spending time with and hanging out with. Treating them as willing partners is the most enjoyable way I know to spend time with them.